MixOff Forum

Mixing Discussion => Mixing Talk => Topic started by: imispgh on April 21, 2012, 03:40:52 PM

Title: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on April 21, 2012, 03:40:52 PM
I just got this thing. Using my Sennheiser HD-280s it is AMAZING especially for the money.

It allows you to use headphones to simulate a range of speakers/monitors in different rooms/settings.

http://www.focusrite.com/products/audio_interfaces/vrm_box/
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: midas on April 21, 2012, 04:05:02 PM
looks very interesting! would be perfect for me since i dont have any real monitors,
to bad my computer is to old and is not supported  ::) *OS X 10.5 Leopard (Intel only), OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard* still using os 10.4
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on April 21, 2012, 04:08:52 PM
I just saw from their site that the device was made for certain headphones like the Sennheiser HD-280s. That explains why it sounds so good to me even though those phones drop off on the extremes when not using the device.  I think the device is way more valuable that actually using one of the excellent monitors it simulates in a poorly treated room.
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: JohnSuitcase on April 22, 2012, 05:31:38 AM
I've read about this, but haven't tried it. Looking forward to your experiences with it, especially how well the mixes translate. I have mixed in phones using a crosstalk/delay circuit with good results, I'm not a doubter, but have read mixed opinions of the VRM. Of course, most of those are reviews by people with lots of money invested in room treatment and monitors. It'd be very hard for them to feel that a $99 box makes their investment obsolete!
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on April 22, 2012, 12:52:41 PM
I've read about this, but haven't tried it. Looking forward to your experiences with it, especially how well the mixes translate. I have mixed in phones using a crosstalk/delay circuit with good results, I'm not a doubter, but have read mixed opinions of the VRM. Of course, most of those are reviews by people with lots of money invested in room treatment and monitors. It'd be very hard for them to feel that a $99 box makes their investment obsolete!

I agree and think that is the point. It cannot replace good monitors in a proper room. But like you said their are a lot of people who cannot or do not treat their rooms right.  Having said that you would have to add a couple different monitors, Avantone, Yamaha HS50M, computer and TV speakers etc and be able to listen in near, mid and farfield as well as in different rooms etc to make up for the variety this thing gives you. (I think the devices realism trails off as it simulates distances and various rooms.  Most bedrooms and living rooms sound more live to me than what the device portrays. But that may just be my opinion). Given all of this and how cheap it is I truly think that not having it, at least as a 2nd tier set of options, is somewhat foolish. If you use one of the headphones it was made for and create something that sounds good on several of the monitor choices I really can't see how you can make a bad mix.
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: Smurf on April 23, 2012, 08:38:55 AM
I just saw from their site that the device was made for certain headphones like the Sennheiser HD-280s. That explains why it sounds so good to me even though those phones drop off on the extremes when not using the device.  I think the device is way more valuable that actually using one of the excellent monitors it simulates in a poorly treated room.

Where is this list at? I just went looking & could not find any info on the headphones to use with it.... :(
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: JohnSuitcase on April 23, 2012, 08:14:36 PM
I just saw from their site that the device was made for certain headphones like the Sennheiser HD-280s. That explains why it sounds so good to me even though those phones drop off on the extremes when not using the device.  I think the device is way more valuable that actually using one of the excellent monitors it simulates in a poorly treated room.

Where is this list at? I just went looking & could not find any info on the headphones to use with it.... :(

The only thing I saw was this: http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=1134
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on April 23, 2012, 11:08:56 PM
http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/en/article.php?id=1134
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: cosmicdolphin on May 10, 2012, 11:22:20 PM
I have the Focusrite Pro 24 DSP that has this built in and to be honest I used it a few times and thought it was pretty gimmicky and I haven't used it since.

Wish I'd gone for the plain vanilla Pro24 now as I don't like the 'comfort reverb' built into it either, it's quite poor and you can't adjust it. So I haven't ended up using either of the extra features I thought I would.

That was a couple of years ago, and I've treated, measured, and tweaked my room since then using a measurement mic , Room EQ Wizard and some help from the acoustics guys on Gearslutz.

My favourite thing I recently got is a Avantone Mixcube..that shines a whole different light on your mix. Sometimes it's really surprising what it reveals.  One of the strange things is how you can make fader moves on it that sound quite obvious, but are virtually undetectable on the bigger monitors.

CD
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on May 11, 2012, 01:50:16 AM
I think saying it is gimmicky is unfair.  Maybe the software updates made it better since u tried it?  I admit I am not a fan of the room and bedroom sim parts but the studio sims are excellent.  A lot of it depends on your headphones. only certain ones were used to make the app. For the price it is far better than even average monitors in a bad room
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: cosmicdolphin on May 11, 2012, 08:04:08 PM
I think saying it is gimmicky is unfair.  Maybe the software updates made it better since u tried it?  I admit I am not a fan of the room and bedroom sim parts but the studio sims are excellent.  A lot of it depends on your headphones. only certain ones were used to make the app. For the price it is far better than even average monitors in a bad room

Yeah, one guys gimmick is anothers invaluable too for sure.

I haven't updated the software, in fact I don't even know if there's any update I could get. I have Sennheiser HD250 Linear II's as my studio headphones ...( http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr02/articles/sennheiserhd250.asp ) so they shouldn't be far off the target headphones they had in mind.

I'd be insterested to know how you use it ?  Do you mix through it or use it as a check after you've finished mixing ?

CD

Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on May 11, 2012, 08:18:01 PM
I use it with my monitors.

I have a tuned room but think the tool in the monitor mode is very useful.  If I didn't have a tuned room or great monitors I would mix with it as my primary option.

I like the Adam S2.5A the best but move around.
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: cosmicdolphin on May 11, 2012, 08:43:43 PM
I've just listened to a few more songs with it on, because it's been a while.

I find on almost all the models the bass is just way to overblown...if I were to EQ the bottom end of the track to what I'm hearing via VRM it would be way off...and I'm talking about commercial mixes here too, so those should sound correct.

The only model I could bear the bass on was the Auratone !  Which obviously has no bass...lol  :o

I also find it has an artificial / grainy sound ...hard to describe..mind you the one in the Pro24 runs on it's own DSP, whereas I read the VRM solo box uses the PC's own processor. Maybe it's running a more detailed model ?

It's not quite as bad if I use the virtual listening position that's a bit further back, but then I find you get more of the room sound which increases the perception of it being artificial. I especially find it's makes the vocals sound like they've been put through a cheap reverb, particularly on more acoustic tracks and speech is not nice at all.

Not sure I could trust anything it's telling me when I try the different models, even good commercial tracks sound 'wrong' on it to me like there's a veil over them.

Well at least you got me to give it another try. I might play with the Auratone model when I can't have have the Avantone blaring at night.

Make s me wonder how different it is to the solo VRM box, it got a really good review at Sound on Sound.

CD
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on May 11, 2012, 08:55:11 PM
hmmmmmmm

Well I would hate to see you get the box and latest Sw and be disappointed. Maybe ask them if there is a bug difference now?

I have a high end stereo system in another tuned room and am pretty particular and lean toward a live sound. The HD-280s are not in the same league at all but I find the tool very useful and not bass heavy on most of the models. (But that could be the HD-280 isn't pumped up down there?)
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: Duendito on September 25, 2012, 12:47:28 AM
Besides my Yamaha HS80M monitors (which are great), I'm using the Sennheiser HD280 headphones and VRM Box, actually on your suggestion, and I'm not disappointed, it has actually helped me learn better how to interpret the sound from my HS80Ms.
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: imispgh on September 25, 2012, 12:54:14 AM
Besides my Yamaha HS80M monitors (which are great), I'm using the Sennheiser HD280 headphones and VRM Box, actually on your suggestion, and I'm not disappointed, it has actually helped me learn better how to interpret the sound from my HS80Ms.

Excellent

Again - I am not suggesting this device is the end all and be all. But it is a excellent tool to have in ones arsenal. And IF they cannot afford good monitors and to treat a room it might be the wiser purchase.
Title: Re: VRM Box - amazing device
Post by: Duendito on November 16, 2012, 05:54:21 PM
Besides my Yamaha HS80M monitors (which are great), I'm using the Sennheiser HD280 headphones and VRM Box, actually on your suggestion, and I'm not disappointed, it has actually helped me learn better how to interpret the sound from my HS80Ms.

Excellent

Again - I am not suggesting this device is the end all and be all. But it is a excellent tool to have in ones arsenal. And IF they cannot afford good monitors and to treat a room it might be the wiser purchase.

At $100 Canadian for the VRM Box, and $110 for the HD280 headphones, it was a small price to pay for such increased options in building a mix!!