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Author Topic: Mixoff Contest with Mike Senior - Win Mike's New Book!  (Read 213298 times)

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April 03, 2011, 05:51:58 AM
The top and bottom snare will always be out of phase if the mic's are at the same distances from the heads and there was no phase-flipping in the recording process. That's because when the top-head moves away from the mic (when hit), the top head will automatically move towards it's mic at the same time (airpressure from the hit). At least that is how I remember the theory :)
Yes, I'm just saying that if the phase on one of the channels is not flipped during recording, which was not done for this song, one of them needs to be flipped during mixing.

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April 03, 2011, 06:20:42 AM
This was a wonderful song to mix. I like the challenges that the song structure brings. Thanks so much for putting this on.

I have some tweaking to do, but I need to take a short break from the song, and some feedback would be super helpful at this point.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12785429/Mixes/Blood_to_Bone_XM_v1.mp3
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April 03, 2011, 11:47:37 AM
The top and bottom snare will always be out of phase if the mic's are at the same distances from the heads and there was no phase-flipping in the recording process. That's because when the top-head moves away from the mic (when hit), the top head will automatically move towards it's mic at the same time (airpressure from the hit). At least that is how I remember the theory :)
Yes, I'm just saying that if the phase on one of the channels is not flipped during recording, which was not done for this song, one of them needs to be flipped during mixing.

My bad, I thought I sensed some surprise in your comment about the snare phases and I thought I'd offer an explanation :)
I'm cleaning up my server, but you can find some of the mixes I did on this forum here: http://soundcloud.com/stefhartog

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April 03, 2011, 12:36:48 PM
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If I were doing a mix of this track myself, I would almost instinctively mult the bass across several different tracks to tackle this, but I suspect that most people haven't been doing so, and are therefore struggling with a well-nigh-impossible task of finding a bass-processing chain which works equally well throughout all the song sections.

This is exactly the approach I took with my mix.

Me too I use 2 tracks for bas in my mix, which could have been 3 but I opted for automating a few plugs in verse/chorus instead.
But in the mid section I needed something more growling so I multed that to another track.

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April 03, 2011, 02:03:46 PM
Hi, not quite finished yet but deadline looms. Still gotta fix the weird bottom end thing going on in the final chorus, amongst other stuff.
http://soundcloud.com/stu-brown/sos-mix-comp
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 10:35:49 AM by manuke »

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April 03, 2011, 02:41:12 PM
Hi, I liked a lot of doing this, to bad I probably didnt had as much time as I should ( I started yesterday, so "?") but the deadline is almost there so here it is

http://soundcloud.com/pc999/young-grifo-blood-to-bone


I did found some trouble with bass in mastering, which I think in the end the bass could be better, in the mix, at least it is closer to the references.

I also tried to do a dynamic master but loud enough to be "competitive".

BTW thanks for everything, as soon as I can I will hear/read others mixs/comments.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 02:51:22 PM by pc999 »

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April 03, 2011, 06:13:55 PM
My mix:
http://www.box.net/shared/pp5d3a0zbz

I made this quickly, this afternoon, using reaper in build plug-ins only.
Basic mix, nothing fancy.
The low end is mystery to me, because I was using very small monitors (Fostex PM-04) and didn't find my headphones.  :D

Any comments are welcome. I'm a starter.

edit: link changed, uploaded wrong file at first
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 10:47:59 AM by washburn »

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April 03, 2011, 06:39:31 PM
http://www.arthor.fi/demo/YoungGriffo_V1.mp3

Blimey -- now *that's* what I call a balance! ;D

As far as presenting the multitrack files provided in the best possible light, this mix currently has a comfortable lead over any of the other mixes I've heard so far. By virtue of careful EQ and dynamics (and beautifully restrained effects usage) Daunt has managed to create an upfront-sounding mix which nonetheless coheres into a convincing whole. The timbres are focused and appealing, yet without compromising the clarity of line, which is excellent -- notice how clearly you can pick out the bass and guitar lines in Chorus 1, for example, even on a small speaker. The overall tonality is very well-judged in relation to the references (could it have a decibel or two more at 10kHz perhaps?), the mono-compatibility is for the most part good, and the mix translates well across a wide range of listening volumes and playback systems.

As such, the few suggestions I can make don't really add up to a hill of beans: a touch less 4kHz in the overheads might stop the cymbals roughening up the sound too much in the mid-sections at high listening volumes; the toms would benefit from a little automation to refine their position in the balance from fill to fill; there are some over-emphasised fret squeaks coming through from the bass part; the cymbals lose a bit too much high end in the mono balance for me; the lead vocals and main verse/chorus guitar riffs feel a fraction recessed in the 1kHz region; the BVs still feel a little low in the balance; and the outro solo isn't making enough of an impact yet for me -- I think that can afford to take more of step forward, and assume a more central position in the image.

In short, if mixing in the traditional sense were all this track needed, this version would tick all the boxes in style. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I prefer the sonics of this mix to those of the reference material in a lot of respects. Daunt: this is first-class work! 8)

However, what this mix categorically demonstrates for me is that this particular set of multitracks needs more than traditional mixing (however slick) to bring out its full potential. For a start, tuning and timing issues are still drawing me away from the music more than I would wish here, although it's a testament to how well this track is balanced that the blend is nonetheless as effective as it is. Beyond this kind of session-prep handle-turning, though, the main problem I have with this mix is that it has yet to grapple with the wider production issues that are within the power of a mix engineer to address. As a result the long-term dynamics don't quite fulfil expectations, and it feels as if the inherent emotions aren't condensed into their most concentrated form.

We've already seen a number of attempts to deal with these kinds of things using section edits, mutes, fly-ins, overdubs, and SFX. While none of these mixes have had a balance to rival Daunt's, what they have provided is some additional headway in terms of enhancing the emotional drama and contrast within the song (especially between sections) and attempting to compensate for inherent arrangement difficulties, such as the textural thinning into the final choruses. It's because your mix mostly steers clear of this kind of thing that it doesn't quite sound quite finished to me, despite the great sonics.

One can of course argue that it's not the mix engineer's place to make production decisions. However, my opinion is that it's more important that the mix engineer do whatever it takes to blow the client away, and in a lot of situations (especially when dealing with self-arranged/produced small-studio multitracks) it's production decisions which are required to achieve this.

Many thanks for taking the time to put this mix together. It's truly been a pleasure to listen to, and I hope that it will be an inspiration to anyone following this thread.
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April 03, 2011, 06:43:00 PM

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April 03, 2011, 06:44:15 PM
I do not use stereo wideners at all, so I'm not sure what the issue is with the guitars.  They were only panned to fill out the sound field.  I suppose the tracks panned left and right are sufficiently similar to cause some phase cancellation.  Maybe that's the issue.

Could be. Or perhaps you've used different processing on each side? A lot of processing choices can shift phase relationships as a side-effect.

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I do have a question regarding your comment about the cymbals.  Not sure why they would disappear in mono, when there is only one overhead track.  How would you prevent that from happening with only one overhead track?  Same with snare.  All mono tracks panned straight down the middle.  Not sure why switching to mono would affect that at all.

Fair question. In which case, that leads me to suspect the stereo effects you've applied to them. Mono-compatibility can be a particular problem with a lot of plug-in reverbs, for example. To check this, try soloing the effect return while switching between stereo and mono.
Mixing Secrets For The Small Studio
A complete mixing method based around the techniques of the world's most famous producers.
Free Mixing Resources On-line!